Best. Episode. Yet.

# 01 Nov, 2013 09:15
deviant.inc	Arthur is awesome! His stories are amazing, especially how he met his tai chi master - it was like something from a classic martial arts movie, it especially reminded me of ‘The Cruel Tutelage of Pai Mei’ section of Kill Bill. I wonder if Quentin Tarantino had heard Arthur's story, first or second-hand? Or is it simply such an ingrained part of Chinese culture that it's the cliche? I now have the overwhelming urge to take up tai chi, though I suspect in my town I will not get any where near the level of tuition Arthur has received…. and lots of taoism in this episode; always good! BTW, I just started listening after I saw Daniele on The Point and have now caught up - nooooooooo! One episode a fortnight now! Thanks though ———————————————– –“One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die…. ” quote

# 01 Nov, 2013 09:15

Arthur is awesome! His stories are amazing, especially how he met his tai chi master - it was like something from a classic martial arts movie, it especially reminded me of ‘The Cruel Tutelage of Pai Mei’ section of Kill Bill. I wonder if Quentin Tarantino had heard Arthur's story, first or second-hand? Or is it simply such an ingrained part of Chinese culture that it's the cliche? I now have the overwhelming urge to take up tai chi, though I suspect in my town I will not get any where near the level of tuition Arthur has received…. and lots of taoism in this episode; always good!

BTW, I just started listening after I saw Daniele on The Point and have now caught up - nooooooooo! One episode a fortnight now! smile

Thanks though smile

———————————————–

–“One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die…. ”

# 03 Nov, 2013 01:40
Kemics	How curious, I found this episode the hardest to connect with yet. Applied tai chi was actually the first martial art I ever studied. However, I've since (with the birth of mma) gone on to explore Bjj, boxing and Olympic wrestling. I guess part of me was internally screaming for Daniele to call him a phony. Which is not to say he is, but to somehow not to mention mma i feel is to massively ignore the elephant in the room. Is there room for push hands martial arts in a world where people are also drilling power doubles? I don't know, but to not address it for me makes me think it is too uncomfortable a subject to broach. Forget sitting outside someone's house for 20 days. I know two gyms within 5 mins of my house who have wonderful, kind and intellectual people who are very happy to train me how to fuck people up. I know it sounds really stupid, but it took me a really long time to wrap my head around and embrace the idea that ‘Asian people don’t have a secret key to marital arts'. It sounds ridiculous, but there is still a very hegemonic discourse that China/japan= some genuine insight into marital arts. Which I think is a mistake, I think this weird asianification (yep I just created a word) is responsible for some ridiculous myths. I'm still struggling with these ideas but I was hoping for some discussion during this podcast. But basically as soon as someone starts name dropping Chinese people/martial art schools I'm instinctively want to scream bullshit… quote

# 03 Nov, 2013 01:40

Kemics

How curious, I found this episode the hardest to connect with yet. Applied tai chi was actually the first martial art I ever studied. However, I've since (with the birth of mma) gone on to explore Bjj, boxing and Olympic wrestling. I guess part of me was internally screaming for Daniele to call him a phony. Which is not to say he is, but to somehow not to mention mma i feel is to massively ignore the elephant in the room. Is there room for push hands martial arts in a world where people are also drilling power doubles? I don't know, but to not address it for me makes me think it is too uncomfortable a subject to broach. Forget sitting outside someone's house for 20 days. I know two gyms within 5 mins of my house who have wonderful, kind and intellectual people who are very happy to train me how to fuck people up. I know it sounds really stupid, but it took me a really long time to wrap my head around and embrace the idea that ‘Asian people don’t have a secret key to marital arts'. It sounds ridiculous, but there is still a very hegemonic discourse that China/japan= some genuine insight into marital arts. Which I think is a mistake, I think this weird asianification (yep I just created a word) is responsible for some ridiculous myths. I'm still struggling with these ideas but I was hoping for some discussion during this podcast. But basically as soon as someone starts name dropping Chinese people/martial art schools I'm instinctively want to scream bullshit…

# 03 Nov, 2013 02:37
cosmicbutters	I can empathize with both of you. I loved this episode because it's nice to hear insight from a traditionalist. However, tai chi is nice for people who are not yet fit, or who are older and need a gentler exercise routine. Of course, that's not to say that tai chi is just softy stuff. There's good training to be had – but of course, if you want to kick real ass then MMA is the way to go. But nothing is wrong with using tai chi to limber up. I had not heard of Rosenfeld before and will look him up. I enjoy Taoist philosophy (although I consider myself a Buddhist atheist a la Stephen Batchelor), as it was my original gateway out of Christianity and into broader thoughts. Poor Rich, drinking too much “I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all.” -General “Mad Dog” Mattis quote

# 03 Nov, 2013 02:37

cosmicbutters

I can empathize with both of you.

I loved this episode because it's nice to hear insight from a traditionalist. However, tai chi is nice for people who are not yet fit, or who are older and need a gentler exercise routine.

Of course, that's not to say that tai chi is just softy stuff. There's good training to be had – but of course, if you want to kick real ass then MMA is the way to go. But nothing is wrong with using tai chi to limber up.

I had not heard of Rosenfeld before and will look him up. I enjoy Taoist philosophy (although I consider myself a Buddhist atheist a la Stephen Batchelor), as it was my original gateway out of Christianity and into broader thoughts.

Poor Rich, drinking too much smile

“I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all.”

-General “Mad Dog” Mattis

# 03 Nov, 2013 13:03
deviant.inc	@Kemics - Yeah, well I guess I didn't see the elephant in the room either. Why would you talk to Arthur about MMA when he's into tai chi and taoism any more than you would chat about tai chi to Bobby Razak? Bobby's into MMA, so you chat to him about MMA. Arthur's into tai chi, so chat to him about tai chi. That said, I do see where you're coming from with on the kinda reverse-racism regarding martial arts. Sure, alot of other countries/cultures have deep martial roots, and also just because a martial school is newer doesn't mean it's not as good. But the flip side of that is that China, Japan, and a few other Asian countries undeniably have a much longer unbroken martial-arts history than most ‘western’ nations. Nowhere in Europe has an unarmed-fighting culture that goes back so many hundreds of years (and past a few hundred years US history is European history), so I guess that appeals to people's imaginations. But confusing ‘ancient’ with ‘best’ is stupid. Anyhow, the reason I loved it so much was that it was a really entertaining story; I don't do MMA, I come around here for the cool stories and taoism. People always have and always will have rivalries between martial-arts schools, but I'm a live and let live kind of person; something doesn't work for you? Fine, don't do it, but if it works for that guy that's fine too. I can manage to enjoy the stories behind competing schools without showing a preference… Plus, I loved the insight into taoism…. ———————————————– –“One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die…. ” quote

# 03 Nov, 2013 13:03

deviant.inc

@Kemics - Yeah, well I guess I didn't see the elephant in the room either. Why would you talk to Arthur about MMA when he's into tai chi and taoism any more than you would chat about tai chi to Bobby Razak? Bobby's into MMA, so you chat to him about MMA. Arthur's into tai chi, so chat to him about tai chi.

That said, I do see where you're coming from with on the kinda reverse-racism regarding martial arts. Sure, alot of other countries/cultures have deep martial roots, and also just because a martial school is newer doesn't mean it's not as good. But the flip side of that is that China, Japan, and a few other Asian countries undeniably have a much longer unbroken martial-arts history than most ‘western’ nations. Nowhere in Europe has an unarmed-fighting culture that goes back so many hundreds of years (and past a few hundred years US history is European history), so I guess that appeals to people's imaginations. But confusing ‘ancient’ with ‘best’ is stupid.

Anyhow, the reason I loved it so much was that it was a really entertaining story; I don't do MMA, I come around here for the cool stories and taoism. People always have and always will have rivalries between martial-arts schools, but I'm a live and let live kind of person; something doesn't work for you? Fine, don't do it, but if it works for that guy that's fine too. I can manage to enjoy the stories behind competing schools without showing a preference… Plus, I loved the insight into taoism….

# 04 Nov, 2013 21:14
BennyB	I'm kind of in line with Kemics way of thinking on this one. Deviant - i totally get how you'd say Arthur isnt into MMA, so why talk to him about it and (without wanting to sound patronising, but maybe failing), it makes sense for someone who hasn't followed the birth and growth of MMA. I'm assuming here, so forgive me if i'm incorrect. But the fact of the matter is that in the early UFC events you DID see guys whose style was listed as ‘kung fu’ and IIRC even one or two that were listed as Tai Chi. The issue is that these arts were VERY swiftly proved to have less (not none, but far less) effective, usable techniques than combative arts such as wrestling, BJJ, boxing and Muay Thai. That would be fine, and mostly irrelevant if it wasnt for Arthur mentioning things like his little old chinese Tai Chi teacher being “the deadliest man in the world” etc. I dunno about Kemic, but i was struggling to imagine how this guy's push hands tai chi would deal with a power double leg, some full mount ground and pound and an armbar. Not that i wish it to happen to him, of course, but quite simply that NONE of those traditional arts guys who built up this mystique have ever (to my knowlege) entered a high level mixed martial arts event and been sucessful. It kinded remined me of this video which is always talked about on the Rogan Podcast where a “Kiai master” who believes he can throw people around with his chi energy challenges an “MMA fighter” (actually he looks more like a full-contact karate guy) and is destroyed in seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I quote

# 04 Nov, 2013 21:14

BennyB

I'm kind of in line with Kemics way of thinking on this one.

Deviant - i totally get how you'd say Arthur isnt into MMA, so why talk to him about it and (without wanting to sound patronising, but maybe failing), it makes sense for someone who hasn't followed the birth and growth of MMA. I'm assuming here, so forgive me if i'm incorrect.

But the fact of the matter is that in the early UFC events you DID see guys whose style was listed as ‘kung fu’ and IIRC even one or two that were listed as Tai Chi. The issue is that these arts were VERY swiftly proved to have less (not none, but far less) effective, usable techniques than combative arts such as wrestling, BJJ, boxing and Muay Thai.

That would be fine, and mostly irrelevant if it wasnt for Arthur mentioning things like his little old chinese Tai Chi teacher being “the deadliest man in the world” etc. I dunno about Kemic, but i was struggling to imagine how this guy's push hands tai chi would deal with a power double leg, some full mount ground and pound and an armbar. Not that i wish it to happen to him, of course, but quite simply that NONE of those traditional arts guys who built up this mystique have ever (to my knowlege) entered a high level mixed martial arts event and been sucessful.

It kinded remined me of this video which is always talked about on the Rogan Podcast where a “Kiai master” who believes he can throw people around with his chi energy challenges an “MMA fighter” (actually he looks more like a full-contact karate guy) and is destroyed in seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

# 05 Nov, 2013 10:33
deviant.inc	That video was hilarious! It reminded me alot of an old Kung-fu movie called ‘The Prodigal Son’, where the son of a rich guy thinks he's learned martial arts, but actually his dad has just been paying off the whole town to lose against him. Either consciously, or subconsciously, he's obviously influenced his dojo to the point that they're all falling down with his ‘empty force’ style (I read a great book on it BTW. Dunno about it as a ‘martial art’ but they had some great semi-historical stories about old masters, like one guy who strengthened his nails each day by digging them into gravel and hot coals, then sharpening them, so he could actually slice off people's skin. I forget what the story had to do with ‘empty force’ though - seems like a pretty traditional contact-style to me… ). First, let me be clear - I'm not trying to defend traditional, soft, martial arts vs MMA. You are totally right, I know neither enough about the history of MMA or the history of soft martial arts like tai chi, ba gua, or xing yi, or even enough about the current state of any of them. That said, it's kind of foolish to assume there is no tai chi master anywhere that could do well at MMA, and it is in the nature of the culture that we will probably never find out as they won't take part in MMA (in fact, as I write this, I'm sure I remember a bit in Dragon:Bruce Lee Story where he has the same kind of confrontation with Jeet Kun Do vs Traditional Kung Fu, so it's not even something new), and I guess that's what really pisses off MMA people like yourself - that they won't step up. Frustrating, I'm sure. But you might as well rage against ‘Qawwali singers thinking their so fucking good at singing, but will those losers step up and prove it on X-Factor?’ - they're totally different traditions, a Qawwali singer is likely to bomb on X-Factor, but that doesn't mean they're ‘worse’, just very different and not suitable for that kind of competition. But maybe it has value in other directions. Maybe softer or traditional martial arts have value beyond just kicking the shit out of someone, but if all you want to do is pummel guys and kick their arse then I guess MMA is for you. But as you say, Arthur did claim his teacher was ‘the deadliest man on earth’ or something equally hyperbolic, which brings me to my other point… This is The Drunken Taoist podcast, not The MMA podcast. Ok, so Daniele decides to pull Arthur up on his exaggerations, they argue, but nothing is solved. Even if he pushes Arthur to the point they have a fight themselves, that doesn't prove anything. What you really want is for Arthur's teacher to step into an MMA ring, but that isn't happening. So all Daniele achieves is a) a crappy episode that's just an argument b) we don't get to hear the stories and stuff about taoism and c) Daniele puts off anyone who isn't 100% MMA from ever appearing on the podcast again. Makes all the MMA people happy, pisses off everyone else who listens for the taoism and cool stories/history - why would he do that? On the other hand, alot of the stories he tells on the podcast are hyperbolic, so why not just enjoy another hyperbolic story that just happens to be set in modern times rather than in the past? (sorry for the long post, as you might have noticed I'm less of a martial arts enthusiast and more into philosophy. Not that martial artists aren't intellectual, just that I haven't yet mastered the ‘economy of movement’ in writing yet ) ———————————————– –“One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die…. ” quote

# 05 Nov, 2013 10:33

deviant.inc

That video was hilarious! smile

It reminded me alot of an old Kung-fu movie called ‘The Prodigal Son’, where the son of a rich guy thinks he's learned martial arts, but actually his dad has just been paying off the whole town to lose against him. Either consciously, or subconsciously, he's obviously influenced his dojo to the point that they're all falling down with his ‘empty force’ style (I read a great book on it BTW. Dunno about it as a ‘martial art’ but they had some great semi-historical stories about old masters, like one guy who strengthened his nails each day by digging them into gravel and hot coals, then sharpening them, so he could actually slice off people's skin. I forget what the story had to do with ‘empty force’ though - seems like a pretty traditional contact-style to me… ).

First, let me be clear - I'm not trying to defend traditional, soft, martial arts vs MMA. You are totally right, I know neither enough about the history of MMA or the history of soft martial arts like tai chi, ba gua, or xing yi, or even enough about the current state of any of them. That said, it's kind of foolish to assume there is no tai chi master anywhere that could do well at MMA, and it is in the nature of the culture that we will probably never find out as they won't take part in MMA (in fact, as I write this, I'm sure I remember a bit in Dragon:Bruce Lee Story where he has the same kind of confrontation with Jeet Kun Do vs Traditional Kung Fu, so it's not even something new), and I guess that's what really pisses off MMA people like yourself - that they won't step up. Frustrating, I'm sure. But you might as well rage against ‘Qawwali singers thinking their so fucking good at singing, but will those losers step up and prove it on X-Factor?’ - they're totally different traditions, a Qawwali singer is likely to bomb on X-Factor, but that doesn't mean they're ‘worse’, just very different and not suitable for that kind of competition. But maybe it has value in other directions. Maybe softer or traditional martial arts have value beyond just kicking the shit out of someone, but if all you want to do is pummel guys and kick their arse then I guess MMA is for you. But as you say, Arthur did claim his teacher was ‘the deadliest man on earth’ or something equally hyperbolic, which brings me to my other point…

This is The Drunken Taoist podcast, not The MMA podcast. Ok, so Daniele decides to pull Arthur up on his exaggerations, they argue, but nothing is solved. Even if he pushes Arthur to the point they have a fight themselves, that doesn't prove anything. What you really want is for Arthur's teacher to step into an MMA ring, but that isn't happening. So all Daniele achieves is a) a crappy episode that's just an argument b) we don't get to hear the stories and stuff about taoism and c) Daniele puts off anyone who isn't 100% MMA from ever appearing on the podcast again. Makes all the MMA people happy, pisses off everyone else who listens for the taoism and cool stories/history - why would he do that? On the other hand, alot of the stories he tells on the podcast are hyperbolic, so why not just enjoy another hyperbolic story that just happens to be set in modern times rather than in the past?

(sorry for the long post, as you might have noticed I'm less of a martial arts enthusiast and more into philosophy. Not that martial artists aren't intellectual, just that I haven't yet mastered the ‘economy of movement’ in writing yet smile

)

# 05 Nov, 2013 13:09
Jazzman	Deviant, I have to disagree with you. First of all I loved the podcast this week as a martial arts enthusiast. But comparing stepping up and competing to singing in the X factor? That's a little insulting. The reason MMA fans get annoyed with these traditional guys not competing is because a lot of them come out with claims that they could win….if only they could use all of their techniques which are banned in MMA. It has almost become a hobby for me to find as many of these “hidden techniques” as possible, and it normally involves kicking a guy in the balls and poking his eyes out. Two things that still wouldn't stop a strong double leg haha. Also, when you compare “soft” martial arts to MMA, well there really shouldn't be such a thing as a soft martial art. As far as I'm concerned Tai Chi is as deadly as yoga, they are both used to strengthen the body and the mind but that is as far as they go. I think martial arts are a lot more black and white than people (including me) want them to be. quote

# 05 Nov, 2013 13:09

Jazzman

Deviant, I have to disagree with you. First of all I loved the podcast this week as a martial arts enthusiast. But comparing stepping up and competing to singing in the X factor? That's a little insulting.

The reason MMA fans get annoyed with these traditional guys not competing is because a lot of them come out with claims that they could win….if only they could use all of their techniques which are banned in MMA. It has almost become a hobby for me to find as many of these “hidden techniques” as possible, and it normally involves kicking a guy in the balls and poking his eyes out. Two things that still wouldn't stop a strong double leg haha.

Also, when you compare “soft” martial arts to MMA, well there really shouldn't be such a thing as a soft martial art. As far as I'm concerned Tai Chi is as deadly as yoga, they are both used to strengthen the body and the mind but that is as far as they go.

I think martial arts are a lot more black and white than people (including me) want them to be.

# 05 Nov, 2013 13:36
BennyB	deviant.inc I guess that's what really pisses off MMA people like yourself - that they won't step up. Frustrating, I'm sure. But you might as well rage against ‘Qawwali singers thinking their so fucking good at singing, but will those losers step up and prove it on X-Factor?’ - they're totally different traditions, a Qawwali singer is likely to bomb on X-Factor, but that doesn't mean they're ‘worse’, just very different and not suitable for that kind of competition. But maybe it has value in other directions. Oh, I'm not frustrated or pissed off about it, not at all. I just find it hard to see claims of “worlds deadliest man” being credible when they're applied to aged chinese martial artists who know ‘secret techniques’. I can't find the parallel in your analogy to be honest…in a singing contest the judging of who is the ‘best’ is purely subjective. In a martial arts contest (MMA), there's an absolutely unmissable objective outcome. The guy who is ‘best’ (or ‘deadliest’ to follow Arthur's terms) is standing up at the end. The other guy is lying down unconscious. There's little room for subjectivity. Having said that, even losers in martial arts contests can be seen to gain something, or still be seen as one of the best martial artists in the world. There was an incredible UFC event recently when a former champion (Dos Santos) took a one-sided 5-round beating. He lost every round and was fairly badly hurt. But the heart and flat-out balls he showed during the fight actually left me with more respect for his martial ‘valor’ than his opponents. Also, for any other MMA fans, how awesome was Diego Sanchez on the same card? deviant.inc On the other hand, alot of the stories he tells on the podcast are hyperbolic, so why not just enjoy another hyperbolic story that just happens to be set in modern times rather than in the past? I agree 100% and i really enjoyed the talk of Taoism and the E-Ching, and especially the star wars references…i'd never made that connection before. All that stuff was great, it was purely the discussion of the worlds deadliest man that jarred with my view of martial arts. Quite possibly it was a throwaway, meaningless superlative that wasn't meant seriously and now is being dissected by a bunch of martial arts keyboard warriors on an internet forum deviant.inc Not that martial artists aren't intellectual, just that I haven't yet mastered the ‘economy of movement’ in writing yet ) Haha. Softly softly catchee monkey young grasshopper! quote

# 05 Nov, 2013 13:36

BennyB

deviant.inc
I guess that's what really pisses off MMA people like yourself - that they won't step up. Frustrating, I'm sure. But you might as well rage against ‘Qawwali singers thinking their so fucking good at singing, but will those losers step up and prove it on X-Factor?’ - they're totally different traditions, a Qawwali singer is likely to bomb on X-Factor, but that doesn't mean they're ‘worse’, just very different and not suitable for that kind of competition. But maybe it has value in other directions.

Oh, I'm not frustrated or pissed off about it, not at all. I just find it hard to see claims of “worlds deadliest man” being credible when they're applied to aged chinese martial artists who know ‘secret techniques’.

I can't find the parallel in your analogy to be honest…in a singing contest the judging of who is the ‘best’ is purely subjective. In a martial arts contest (MMA), there's an absolutely unmissable objective outcome. The guy who is ‘best’ (or ‘deadliest’ to follow Arthur's terms) is standing up at the end. The other guy is lying down unconscious. There's little room for subjectivity.

Having said that, even losers in martial arts contests can be seen to gain something, or still be seen as one of the best martial artists in the world. There was an incredible UFC event recently when a former champion (Dos Santos) took a one-sided 5-round beating. He lost every round and was fairly badly hurt. But the heart and flat-out balls he showed during the fight actually left me with more respect for his martial ‘valor’ than his opponents. Also, for any other MMA fans, how awesome was Diego Sanchez on the same card?

deviant.inc
On the other hand, alot of the stories he tells on the podcast are hyperbolic, so why not just enjoy another hyperbolic story that just happens to be set in modern times rather than in the past?

I agree 100% and i really enjoyed the talk of Taoism and the E-Ching, and especially the star wars references…i'd never made that connection before. All that stuff was great, it was purely the discussion of the worlds deadliest man that jarred with my view of martial arts. Quite possibly it was a throwaway, meaningless superlative that wasn't meant seriously and now is being dissected by a bunch of martial arts keyboard warriors on an internet forum smile

deviant.inc
Not that martial artists aren't intellectual, just that I haven't yet mastered the ‘economy of movement’ in writing yet )

Haha. Softly softly catchee monkey young grasshopper!

# 05 Nov, 2013 13:46
Kemics	Deviant: I think you misunderstand me (a little) it's not that I would want anyone to have a confrontation about it, or be angry about it. I wouldn't want myself to be included with the ‘meat head’ mma fans anymore than i would the ‘empty force’ martial artists. I'd like to take the best of both worlds, I would like a martial art which is functional but also can be spiritual and thoughtful. Neither spheres are mutually exclusive. So what I wanted was to hear a discussion, not a confrontation or interrogation. But a soft interview. For me personally I felt a little let down by traditional martial arts, like I had wasted a huge amount of time an energy. I would have been very interested to hear someone else's experience. Did he feel it was still worth it, what lessons did he learn that are still relevant? What aspect of martials arts are the meat head mma fans missing out on by ignoring traditional stuff? Or is he too attached to his label as a “master”. Did he ever begin to doubt himself? Does he practice solely for hiself? Martial arts is essentially about fighting, but can you learn important lessons for life and the meta if the foundations of the arts arn't super solid. I was just disappointed that Danielle only flattered his ego…not very taoist quote

# 05 Nov, 2013 13:46

Kemics

Deviant:

I think you misunderstand me (a little) it's not that I would want anyone to have a confrontation about it, or be angry about it. I wouldn't want myself to be included with the ‘meat head’ mma fans anymore than i would the ‘empty force’ martial artists. I'd like to take the best of both worlds, I would like a martial art which is functional but also can be spiritual and thoughtful. Neither spheres are mutually exclusive.

So what I wanted was to hear a discussion, not a confrontation or interrogation. But a soft interview.

For me personally I felt a little let down by traditional martial arts, like I had wasted a huge amount of time an energy. I would have been very interested to hear someone else's experience. Did he feel it was still worth it, what lessons did he learn that are still relevant? What aspect of martials arts are the meat head mma fans missing out on by ignoring traditional stuff? Or is he too attached to his label as a “master”. Did he ever begin to doubt himself? Does he practice solely for hiself? Martial arts is essentially about fighting, but can you learn important lessons for life and the meta if the foundations of the arts arn't super solid. I was just disappointed that Danielle only flattered his ego…not very taoist smile

# 05 Nov, 2013 13:51
deviant.inc	Jazzman Deviant, I have to disagree with you. First of all I loved the podcast this week as a martial arts enthusiast. But comparing stepping up and competing to singing in the X factor? That's a little insulting…. …Also, when you compare “soft” martial arts to MMA, well there really shouldn't be such a thing as a soft martial art. As far as I'm concerned Tai Chi is as deadly as yoga, they are both used to strengthen the body and the mind but that is as far as they go. Yeah, I tried to think of a better non-martial-arts example that anyone would understand, but I couldn't think of one. I'm not saying MMA is like X-Factor, I'm saying MMA is a modern movement/competition that cannot necessarily be directly compared to ancient traditions (mostly because those traditions have to do with alot more than just competition). Maybe (now I think of it) I could have chosen Morris Dancing vs Contemporary Dance, though I think people do not appreciate Morris in the same way they still appreciate tai chi or Qawwali Problem is, there are not so many very well known competitions that aren't martial arts or singing… Also, I called them ‘soft’ martial arts as that is how they are often described, especially in books on the subject. I put ‘soft’ in inverted commas to try to indicate that I did not think they were necessarily that soft (though tai chi is more often practised as exercise rather than a martial art)… And, you only mention tai chi - what about ba gua? AFAIK it is similar to tai chi, but is most certainly more overtly a combative discipline? And, just reading up on something I was reminded of another way of characterising them - ‘internal’ martial arts. Incidentally, after watching the above linked video I had a quick look for ‘tai chi vs MMA’, and this video came top - listen to the commentary, the guy has some interesting things to say (one of which, is he does not feel better than the MMA people), so maybe not everyone in MMA is so hostile to tai chi: http://youtu.be/bDIb9TWy-78 ———————————————– –“One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die…. ” quote

# 05 Nov, 2013 13:51

deviant.inc

Jazzman
Deviant, I have to disagree with you. First of all I loved the podcast this week as a martial arts enthusiast. But comparing stepping up and competing to singing in the X factor? That's a little insulting….

…Also, when you compare “soft” martial arts to MMA, well there really shouldn't be such a thing as a soft martial art. As far as I'm concerned Tai Chi is as deadly as yoga, they are both used to strengthen the body and the mind but that is as far as they go.

Yeah, I tried to think of a better non-martial-arts example that anyone would understand, but I couldn't think of one. I'm not saying MMA is like X-Factor, I'm saying MMA is a modern movement/competition that cannot necessarily be directly compared to ancient traditions (mostly because those traditions have to do with alot more than just competition). Maybe (now I think of it) I could have chosen Morris Dancing vs Contemporary Dance, though I think people do not appreciate Morris in the same way they still appreciate tai chi or Qawwali smile

Problem is, there are not so many very well known competitions that aren't martial arts or singing…

Also, I called them ‘soft’ martial arts as that is how they are often described, especially in books on the subject. I put ‘soft’ in inverted commas to try to indicate that I did not think they were necessarily that soft (though tai chi is more often practised as exercise rather than a martial art)… And, you only mention tai chi - what about ba gua? AFAIK it is similar to tai chi, but is most certainly more overtly a combative discipline? And, just reading up on something I was reminded of another way of characterising them - ‘internal’ martial arts.

Incidentally, after watching the above linked video I had a quick look for ‘tai chi vs MMA’, and this video came top - listen to the commentary, the guy has some interesting things to say (one of which, is he does not feel better than the MMA people), so maybe not everyone in MMA is so hostile to tai chi:

http://youtu.be/bDIb9TWy-78