Should I Start BJJ?

# 15 Aug, 2013 18:45
BennyB	Hey guys hope everyone is healthy and happy. This whole post can be summarised in one line which is - I am involved in competitive powerlifting at a reasonably high level but I'm fascinated by BJJ, I want to know if it would be worth training BJJ if I could do just one session per week and if the cardio involved will fuck with my lifting? Context For anyone who'd be kind enough to read a wall of text with some background and context…I train 4x a week, pretty much just drilling squat, bench and deadlift (the lifts which are assessed in PL competitions). I do some mobility work too but with the weights it's pretty much just low rep work (<5s mainly). I'm probably pretty strong compared to non-powerlifters, reasonably strong to powerlifters (I've been top 3 at multiple national championships and one international) but either way my aerobic cardio probably sucks bad and I imagine my flexibility is not great - powerlifting kind of builds stiffness! I'm also pretty bulky (200lbs at 5'6). I've done martial arts in the past (judo as a kid, then taekwondo as a teen and Muay Thai as a younger man) and I'm really interested in trying some BJJ - there are two schools near me in the UK: a 10th Planet affiliate and a Gracie Barra run by Braulio Estima, so from the very little I know of the sport/art (what is the preferred term?) I am in good company. I'm still active with my PL so could probably only spare 1 day a wk to do BJJ, what I'm wondering is if it's even worth it? My goal isn't necessarily to excel at it (and I wouldn't expect that with 2hrs/wk) but would it even be worthwhile? Could you progress with that? At this point in my life I probably can't find the 10,000 hrs needed to attain mastery of a new sport but if I can learn stuff and enjoy myself that'll be fine. The other consideration I have is whether 2hrs of aerobic cardio will fuck with my PL training - it's pretty demanding already and low-rep strength training and grappling cardio are (I imagine) at the opposite ends of e spectrum of training effects (I.e. one will certainly not complement the other, and probably somewhat inhibit). If any grapplers on the forum would be kind enough to drop some wisdom then it'd be appreciated. Thanks. Benny quote

# 15 Aug, 2013 18:45

Hey guys hope everyone is healthy and happy.

This whole post can be summarised in one line which is -

I am involved in competitive powerlifting at a reasonably high level but I'm fascinated by BJJ, I want to know if it would be worth training BJJ if I could do just one session per week and if the cardio involved will fuck with my lifting?

Context
For anyone who'd be kind enough to read a wall of text with some background and context…I train 4x a week, pretty much just drilling squat, bench and deadlift (the lifts which are assessed in PL competitions). I do some mobility work too but with the weights it's pretty much just low rep work (<5s mainly). I'm probably pretty strong compared to non-powerlifters, reasonably strong to powerlifters (I've been top 3 at multiple national championships and one international) but either way my aerobic cardio probably sucks bad and I imagine my flexibility is not great - powerlifting kind of builds stiffness! I'm also pretty bulky (200lbs at 5'6).

I've done martial arts in the past (judo as a kid, then taekwondo as a teen and Muay Thai as a younger man) and I'm really interested in trying some BJJ - there are two schools near me in the UK: a 10th Planet affiliate and a Gracie Barra run by Braulio Estima, so from the very little I know of the sport/art (what is the preferred term?) I am in good company.

I'm still active with my PL so could probably only spare 1 day a wk to do BJJ, what I'm wondering is if it's even worth it? My goal isn't necessarily to excel at it (and I wouldn't expect that with 2hrs/wk) but would it even be worthwhile? Could you progress with that?

At this point in my life I probably can't find the 10,000 hrs needed to attain mastery of a new sport but if I can learn stuff and enjoy myself that'll be fine. The other consideration I have is whether 2hrs of aerobic cardio will fuck with my PL training - it's pretty demanding already and low-rep strength training and grappling cardio are (I imagine) at the opposite ends of e spectrum of training effects (I.e. one will certainly not complement the other, and probably somewhat inhibit).

If any grapplers on the forum would be kind enough to drop some wisdom then it'd be appreciated.

Thanks.

Benny

# 15 Aug, 2013 19:47
Jason	While I am not a jujitsu practitioner I take MMA classes 3 days a week (if I can make it). I have been doing lifting weights as well trying to gain some mass. I am 160 lbs and am very lean and muscular. I did notice that when I focused more on working out for size by lifting super heavy and eating extra calories that I did not do as well in MMA class. My cardio basically sucked. I went back to eating normally and lifting with slightly higher reps and I my cardio has improved. I also skip rope quite often for cardio. One thing I would be concerned about for yourself is the cardio and in jujitsu, flexibility. I know I have watched videos of Eddie Bravo talking about how important flexibility is for jujitsu. You will not be able to advance very fast with one day of training a week, but it is better than nothing. Hope I helped. quote

# 15 Aug, 2013 19:47

Jason

While I am not a jujitsu practitioner I take MMA classes 3 days a week (if I can make it). I have been doing lifting weights as well trying to gain some mass. I am 160 lbs and am very lean and muscular. I did notice that when I focused more on working out for size by lifting super heavy and eating extra calories that I did not do as well in MMA class. My cardio basically sucked. I went back to eating normally and lifting with slightly higher reps and I my cardio has improved. I also skip rope quite often for cardio.

One thing I would be concerned about for yourself is the cardio and in jujitsu, flexibility. I know I have watched videos of Eddie Bravo talking about how important flexibility is for jujitsu. You will not be able to advance very fast with one day of training a week, but it is better than nothing. Hope I helped.

# 18 Aug, 2013 16:34
BennyB	Thanks for the reply Jason. How would you describe the cardio in a typical BJJ class? Is it (for example) a hour or so of drills and technique work then 30mins of live rolling at the end? How does the rolling break down? Half an hour non-stop, or a couple of mins on and then a rest before the next one etc.? quote

# 21 Aug, 2013 15:16
Jason	I do not know how a Bjj class is setup. I know there are some guys on this board that have taken some Bjj and maybe they can comment here. quote

# 22 Aug, 2013 17:08
dhizzo	BennyB Thanks for the reply Jason. How would you describe the cardio in a typical BJJ class? Is it (for example) a hour or so of drills and technique work then 30mins of live rolling at the end? How does the rolling break down? Half an hour non-stop, or a couple of mins on and then a rest before the next one etc.? I attend Gracie Humaita Winnipeg. If the mats are open I stretch as much as possible before class starts. We start with 15mins warm up, which includes light jogging, push-ups, sit-ups, bear walk, crab walk. And occasionally more dynamic stuff, like rolls, shrimping, cart wheels, etc. Then we learn a move for 30 minutes, which can be fairly physically intense, usually sweating. Then finish off with 15 minutes rolling, usually working on a position we just learned, then just free roll. As a body builder, you're going to get exhausted and smoked by a lot of smaller guys. I've rolled with hugely muscled guys and they always gas really easy, and they're not flexible, and they're slow. Body buliding and jitz are polar opposites in terms of skills. You won't be able to be good at both. That being said, it's fun as shit, go try out a class. quote

# 22 Aug, 2013 17:08

dhizzo

BennyB
Thanks for the reply Jason.

How would you describe the cardio in a typical BJJ class? Is it (for example) a hour or so of drills and technique work then 30mins of live rolling at the end? How does the rolling break down? Half an hour non-stop, or a couple of mins on and then a rest before the next one etc.?

I attend Gracie Humaita Winnipeg.

If the mats are open I stretch as much as possible before class starts.

We start with 15mins warm up, which includes light jogging, push-ups, sit-ups, bear walk, crab walk. And occasionally more dynamic stuff, like rolls, shrimping, cart wheels, etc.

Then we learn a move for 30 minutes, which can be fairly physically intense, usually sweating.

Then finish off with 15 minutes rolling, usually working on a position we just learned, then just free roll.

As a body builder, you're going to get exhausted and smoked by a lot of smaller guys. I've rolled with hugely muscled guys and they always gas really easy, and they're not flexible, and they're slow. Body buliding and jitz are polar opposites in terms of skills. You won't be able to be good at both.

That being said, it's fun as shit, go try out a class.

# 22 Aug, 2013 17:14
dhizzo	oh wait, you're a powerlifter, not a body builder. That should help some. Just try not to muscle out moves, that only works against guys smaller than you, were as good technique will have you working over much larger opponents. quote

# 22 Aug, 2013 20:11
BennyB	Thanks Dhizzo…yeah certainly not a bodybuilder, although you would be amazed at how many people get the two mixed up! Powerlifters, especially lightweight ones (200lbs is pretty light in powerlifting) can be pretty athletic, think more like Olympic weightlifters or Olympic throwers (javelin, discuss etc.) and although they can be fairly well muscled its functional strength earned by picking up heavy stuff fast, rather than doing 100 sets of bicep curls on a machine. THat breakdown was really helpful, thanks. I actually called the 10th Planet gym near me and the guy was super friendly and ehthusiastic and I'm gonna go down and try out a couple of sessions in September. quote

# 22 Aug, 2013 20:11

BennyB

Thanks Dhizzo…yeah certainly not a bodybuilder, although you would be amazed at how many people get the two mixed up!

Powerlifters, especially lightweight ones (200lbs is pretty light in powerlifting) can be pretty athletic, think more like Olympic weightlifters or Olympic throwers (javelin, discuss etc.) and although they can be fairly well muscled its functional strength earned by picking up heavy stuff fast, rather than doing 100 sets of bicep curls on a machine.

THat breakdown was really helpful, thanks. I actually called the 10th Planet gym near me and the guy was super friendly and ehthusiastic and I'm gonna go down and try out a couple of sessions in September.

# 16 Oct, 2013 22:36
monkeychoke	The very simple answer - yeas you should. But I'll come back and edit this in the morning for more detail BennyB, just heading to sleep. quote

# 24 Oct, 2013 20:45
BennyB	monkeychoke The very simple answer - yeas you should. But I'll come back and edit this in the morning for more detail BennyB, just heading to sleep. Thanks Monkey man (BTW that's the name of an awesome Toots & the Maytals tune that was on my iPod a minute ago). So, to update, I've been to the 10th planet near me a few times now…maybe 5 times? I still basically have very little idea what I'm doing in most positions. Until the other day after I downloaded a Grapplearts “submission defence” iPhone app I was getting triangled a LOT. Like, 4 or 5 times per 3 min roll if the guy had long legs and a good triangle LOL! The cardio and flexibility haven't actually been as bad as I expected and I seem to be able to use some aspects of my short stocky build to my advantage. E.g. my ass and hips are very thick from years of squatting and dead lifting heavy. So, if i can get to side control, I'm very hard to shift! I can squeeze pretty hard too, so I'm able to finish some chokes (probably more like cranks/face squeezes) with terrible technique. I really need another choke from side control though…I seem to always end up with north/south and I am way too clumsy and slow to sneak an aRm triangle set up. As for guard…say no more. Put it this way, I don't think anyone's in danger of being triangled by my thick stumpy legs any time soon. Guess I need to develop a sweep game from the bottom and focus on top game chokes, although at this stage I just need to learn everything really. quote

# 24 Oct, 2013 20:45

BennyB

monkeychoke
The very simple answer - yeas you should.
But I'll come back and edit this in the morning for more detail BennyB, just heading to sleep.

Thanks Monkey man (BTW that's the name of an awesome Toots & the Maytals tune that was on my iPod a minute ago).

So, to update, I've been to the 10th planet near me a few times now…maybe 5 times? I still basically have very little idea what I'm doing in most positions. Until the other day after I downloaded a Grapplearts “submission defence” iPhone app I was getting triangled a LOT. Like, 4 or 5 times per 3 min roll if the guy had long legs and a good triangle LOL!

The cardio and flexibility haven't actually been as bad as I expected and I seem to be able to use some aspects of my short stocky build to my advantage. E.g. my ass and hips are very thick from years of squatting and dead lifting heavy. So, if i can get to side control, I'm very hard to shift! I can squeeze pretty hard too, so I'm able to finish some chokes (probably more like cranks/face squeezes) with terrible technique. I really need another choke from side control though…I seem to always end up with north/south and I am way too clumsy and slow to sneak an aRm triangle set up.

As for guard…say no more. Put it this way, I don't think anyone's in danger of being triangled by my thick stumpy legs any time soon. Guess I need to develop a sweep game from the bottom and focus on top game chokes, although at this stage I just need to learn everything really.

# 27 Oct, 2013 12:09
monkeychoke	BennyB monkeychoke The very simple answer - yeas you should. But I'll come back and edit this in the morning for more detail BennyB, just heading to sleep. Thanks Monkey man (BTW that's the name of an awesome Toots & the Maytals tune that was on my iPod a minute ago). So, to update, I've been to the 10th planet near me a few times now…maybe 5 times? I still basically have very little idea what I'm doing in most positions. Until the other day after I downloaded a Grapplearts “submission defence” iPhone app I was getting triangled a LOT. Like, 4 or 5 times per 3 min roll if the guy had long legs and a good triangle LOL! The cardio and flexibility haven't actually been as bad as I expected and I seem to be able to use some aspects of my short stocky build to my advantage. E.g. my ass and hips are very thick from years of squatting and dead lifting heavy. So, if i can get to side control, I'm very hard to shift! I can squeeze pretty hard too, so I'm able to finish some chokes (probably more like cranks/face squeezes) with terrible technique. I really need another choke from side control though…I seem to always end up with north/south and I am way too clumsy and slow to sneak an aRm triangle set up. As for guard…say no more. Put it this way, I don't think anyone's in danger of being triangled by my thick stumpy legs any time soon. Guess I need to develop a sweep game from the bottom and focus on top game chokes, although at this stage I just need to learn everything really. If you have thick, short legs you should develop a butterfly guard game - Saulo Ribeiro and Marcelo Garcia both have some great material out there. I love using butterfly guard my legs are quite short but I do have an aggressive closed guard game as well - butterflies are excellent for taking an opponent out of their game and into yours. Learn how to pummel for under hooks, develop a strong squeeze on your overbooks - and you’ll be sweeping even large guys in no time. Another thing that butterfly guard is amazing for is setting up submissions. I use my BG to set up triangles & omoplatas. (If you use tricep control above the elbow, it gives you the appearance of a sweep and still allows you opponent to base out, from there you can attack the arm with an omoplata or go for a JJ-Machado style sweep.) So, in summary, keep going, have fun, and maybe do a bit of research/drilling of the butterfly guard. Good work brother. PS: don’t worry too much about your arm triangles if you have a strong north-shouth - NS is higher percentage than AT, especially against bigger opponents. Be efficient with what you learn to start with. quote

# 27 Oct, 2013 12:09

monkeychoke

BennyB
monkeychoke
The very simple answer - yeas you should.
But I'll come back and edit this in the morning for more detail BennyB, just heading to sleep.
Thanks Monkey man (BTW that's the name of an awesome Toots & the Maytals tune that was on my iPod a minute ago).

So, to update, I've been to the 10th planet near me a few times now…maybe 5 times? I still basically have very little idea what I'm doing in most positions. Until the other day after I downloaded a Grapplearts “submission defence” iPhone app I was getting triangled a LOT. Like, 4 or 5 times per 3 min roll if the guy had long legs and a good triangle LOL!

The cardio and flexibility haven't actually been as bad as I expected and I seem to be able to use some aspects of my short stocky build to my advantage. E.g. my ass and hips are very thick from years of squatting and dead lifting heavy. So, if i can get to side control, I'm very hard to shift! I can squeeze pretty hard too, so I'm able to finish some chokes (probably more like cranks/face squeezes) with terrible technique. I really need another choke from side control though…I seem to always end up with north/south and I am way too clumsy and slow to sneak an aRm triangle set up.

As for guard…say no more. Put it this way, I don't think anyone's in danger of being triangled by my thick stumpy legs any time soon. Guess I need to develop a sweep game from the bottom and focus on top game chokes, although at this stage I just need to learn everything really.

If you have thick, short legs you should develop a butterfly guard game - Saulo Ribeiro and Marcelo Garcia both have some great material out there. I love using butterfly guard my legs are quite short but I do have an aggressive closed guard game as well - butterflies are excellent for taking an opponent out of their game and into yours.

Learn how to pummel for under hooks, develop a strong squeeze on your overbooks - and you’ll be sweeping even large guys in no time. Another thing that butterfly guard is amazing for is setting up submissions. I use my BG to set up triangles & omoplatas. (If you use tricep control above the elbow, it gives you the appearance of a sweep and still allows you opponent to base out, from there you can attack the arm with an omoplata or go for a JJ-Machado style sweep.)

So, in summary, keep going, have fun, and maybe do a bit of research/drilling of the butterfly guard. Good work brother.

PS: don’t worry too much about your arm triangles if you have a strong north-shouth - NS is higher percentage than AT, especially against bigger opponents. Be efficient with what you learn to start with.