Performance enhancing drugs

# 28 Mar, 2013 06:57
Troyh	Fellow drunkards, I would like to start up a conversation in regards to the use of performance enhancing drugs in sport. First of all my personal feelings on the matter. I am against the use of performance enhancing drugs (steroids, EPO etc) My position is based on a weird sense of honor that I hold personally in regards to hard work. A sense of pride would be another way to describe it. Damaging the body is definitely a deterrent but it is hard to know the exact effects & how negative they actually are. A couple of points people may want to comment on: An argument that I have heard non-users say is that people who use PED's (Performance enhancing drugs) are mentally weak as they rely on a crutch for their strength. I believe it may almost be the opposite way. Now myself & others are worried about going into our sports with a significant disadvantage to others. Do you think it is sports specific? What I mean by this is, I was talking with an ex UFC fighter who currently hold's a title in another promotion. We were discussing the issue as did most of the world when Lance Armstrong came out & admitted his actions. I think he summed up the question best with this exact comment “If Lance Armstrong doesn't use PED's he comes second in a bike race. If I'm waking up everyday drinking protein & fight some 21 year old kid who's pumped full of drugs & doesn't get tired like a normal human being, I wake up in the hospital” Is using PEDs in Martial arts worse than say.. soccer? I would also like to stress that the individual has been clean his entire career & to my knowledge still is. I think it goes back to that argument on mental strength, now the opposition who uses has the advantage. Would be great to hear all your guy's thoughts on the matter! quote

# 28 Mar, 2013 06:57

Fellow drunkards, I would like to start up a conversation in regards to the use of performance enhancing drugs in sport.

First of all my personal feelings on the matter. I am against the use of performance enhancing drugs (steroids, EPO etc) My position is based on a weird sense of honor that I hold personally in regards to hard work. A sense of pride would be another way to describe it. Damaging the body is definitely a deterrent but it is hard to know the exact effects & how negative they actually are.

A couple of points people may want to comment on:
An argument that I have heard non-users say is that people who use PED's (Performance enhancing drugs) are mentally weak as they rely on a crutch for their strength. I believe it may almost be the opposite way. Now myself & others are worried about going into our sports with a significant disadvantage to others.

Do you think it is sports specific?
What I mean by this is, I was talking with an ex UFC fighter who currently hold's a title in another promotion. We were discussing the issue as did most of the world when Lance Armstrong came out & admitted his actions. I think he summed up the question best with this exact comment “If Lance Armstrong doesn't use PED's he comes second in a bike race. If I'm waking up everyday drinking protein & fight some 21 year old kid who's pumped full of drugs & doesn't get tired like a normal human being, I wake up in the hospital” Is using PEDs in Martial arts worse than say.. soccer?

I would also like to stress that the individual has been clean his entire career & to my knowledge still is. I think it goes back to that argument on mental strength, now the opposition who uses has the advantage.

Would be great to hear all your guy's thoughts on the matter!

# 28 Mar, 2013 22:39
Panchanito	Certainly you wouldn't want to match users and non-users in a martial competition. I wouldn't even want to watch that. The effects are more unfair than dangerous in a team sport setting. What about the possibility of PED leagues for every sport? That way someone's personal choice to use does not trample on another's not to. Our world is changing rapidly. Right now were are debating PED's but soon it will be performance enhancing cybernetic implants. Lets just open everything up for the myriad possible experiences our world has to offer! quote

# 28 Mar, 2013 22:39

Panchanito

Certainly you wouldn't want to match users and non-users in a martial competition. I wouldn't even want to watch that. The effects are more unfair than dangerous in a team sport setting. What about the possibility of PED leagues for every sport? That way someone's personal choice to use does not trample on another's not to.
Our world is changing rapidly. Right now were are debating PED's but soon it will be performance enhancing cybernetic implants. Lets just open everything up for the myriad possible experiences our world has to offer!

# 29 Mar, 2013 02:39
Troyh	The problem is that is already happening. Testing standards are bad enough in the UFC were TRT, Stanazol have been widely used… Let alone the amateur leagues where testing is non-existent! So my friend the sad truth is if you watch martial arts you already are. If a 2nd league for performance enhancing users would solve that problem then I would welcome it! But then.. Whats the point if not to gain an unfair advantage over your opponent?? You would still get cheaters staying in the regular leagues, only now they would have places to go once they got caught! The benefit of a legalized competition would be I suppose we could really measure the potential of fighters. Possibly more importantly we could measure the actual long term effects/consequences without all the confusion from both side of the argument. One thing I know for sure is that you can still be one of the best fighters in the world without it. I know beyond the shadow of a doubt there are top 5 ranked fighters that don't use anything. Unfortunately they are few & far between. They might need 3 leagues, the cybernetic Ninja league, the Ultimate test tube fighter & the Human potential league. Which would you watch! quote

# 29 Mar, 2013 02:39

Troyh

The problem is that is already happening. Testing standards are bad enough in the UFC were TRT, Stanazol have been widely used… Let alone the amateur leagues where testing is non-existent! So my friend the sad truth is if you watch martial arts you already are. If a 2nd league for performance enhancing users would solve that problem then I would welcome it! But then.. Whats the point if not to gain an unfair advantage over your opponent?? You would still get cheaters staying in the regular leagues, only now they would have places to go once they got caught!

The benefit of a legalized competition would be I suppose we could really measure the potential of fighters. Possibly more importantly we could measure the actual long term effects/consequences without all the confusion from both side of the argument.

One thing I know for sure is that you can still be one of the best fighters in the world without it. I know beyond the shadow of a doubt there are top 5 ranked fighters that don't use anything. Unfortunately they are few & far between.

They might need 3 leagues, the cybernetic Ninja league, the Ultimate test tube fighter & the Human potential league. Which would you watch!

# 29 Mar, 2013 23:10
DjMagik	What I found interesting is that they even monitor UFC fighters' amount of caffeine. I say let them go at it I would love to see some guy take it overboard because you know it would happen. Don't worry…everything's gonna be alright quote

# 30 Mar, 2013 00:14
Troyh	And that would be the true origin story of Bane =D Probably need an oxygen mask & all. quote

# 30 Mar, 2013 01:27
monkeychoke	Does Fallon Fox's natural endowment count as performance enhancing? In all seriousness, I have a background of racing road bikes as a kid and growing up immersed in the world of cycling, PEDs are a genuine threat to both the user's health and that of their competitors. This is true in a non-contact sport such as cycling, and even more so in the martial arts. TRT? Your balls aren't strong enough in your old age? Tough shit, don't fight - as simple as that. I'm all for freak athletes, but if that is the case you have to create a freak-superfighter league specifically designed for the artificially enhanced. Also, a tranny league might be a fun idea, get some Thai recruits. PS: If you've never heard cyclist's accounts of EPO (sometimes used in MMA but most rife in distance sports, for it's effect on the aerobic capacity {V02-Max}), then read a book called bad blood. Scary shit! quote

# 30 Mar, 2013 01:27

monkeychoke

Does Fallon Fox's natural endowment count as performance enhancing?

In all seriousness, I have a background of racing road bikes as a kid and growing up immersed in the world of cycling, PEDs are a genuine threat to both the user's health and that of their competitors. This is true in a non-contact sport such as cycling, and even more so in the martial arts.

TRT? Your balls aren't strong enough in your old age? Tough shit, don't fight - as simple as that.

I'm all for freak athletes, but if that is the case you have to create a freak-superfighter league specifically designed for the artificially enhanced. Also, a tranny league might be a fun idea, get some Thai recruits.

PS: If you've never heard cyclist's accounts of EPO (sometimes used in MMA but most rife in distance sports, for it's effect on the aerobic capacity {V02-Max}), then read a book called bad blood. Scary shit!

# 30 Mar, 2013 03:20
Troyh	I absolutely believe Fallon Fox's natural endowment count as performance enhancing. Perhaps there should just be a continuous annual fight between Fallon Fox (is that a real name??) & Cris Cyborg (Again.. Really??) we can find out whether formerly being a male overpowers steroid use! I agree with your comment about TRT & also I don't condone its use in cycling. I'm interesting on the effects of steroid use. Not because I am considering using them personally but I know quite a few people who have turned to them that I train with. The confusion comes from sources such as the documentary bigger, stronger, faster where you have people de-bunking damaging effects from steroid use. Are people dying? From my personal viewpoint I just cant imagine it not being damaging to the body. There are limits to what we can do naturally & people burn out. Not to mention the fact that if you are just going to be a steroid using, from my experience it isn't going to give you an advantage. At least not in the combat arena. I couldn't tell the amount of Conan sized human beings have stepped in against me in a boxing setting (I weigh about 70kg's or 154 pounds) perhaps the guys I have been against just weren't skilled, but once the initial intimidation of fighting someone 60 pounds heavier who looks like the hulk wears off you realize what little difference that makes. Here is a link to Bigger, Stronger, Faster in case your interested in having a look. This was the documentary that convinced one of my good friends he should start using http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApmX8Q0vqKI quote

# 30 Mar, 2013 03:20

Troyh

I absolutely believe Fallon Fox's natural endowment count as performance enhancing. Perhaps there should just be a continuous annual fight between Fallon Fox (is that a real name??) & Cris Cyborg (Again.. Really??) we can find out whether formerly being a male overpowers steroid use!

I agree with your comment about TRT & also I don't condone its use in cycling.

I'm interesting on the effects of steroid use. Not because I am considering using them personally but I know quite a few people who have turned to them that I train with. The confusion comes from sources such as the documentary bigger, stronger, faster where you have people de-bunking damaging effects from steroid use. Are people dying? From my personal viewpoint I just cant imagine it not being damaging to the body. There are limits to what we can do naturally & people burn out. Not to mention the fact that if you are just going to be a steroid using, from my experience it isn't going to give you an advantage. At least not in the combat arena. I couldn't tell the amount of Conan sized human beings have stepped in against me in a boxing setting (I weigh about 70kg's or 154 pounds) perhaps the guys I have been against just weren't skilled, but once the initial intimidation of fighting someone 60 pounds heavier who looks like the hulk wears off you realize what little difference that makes.

Here is a link to Bigger, Stronger, Faster in case your interested in having a look. This was the documentary that convinced one of my good friends he should start using
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApmX8Q0vqKI

# 19 Apr, 2013 06:15
Wood8000	Personally I like what Tim Ferriss had to say about the use of PEDs. They should establish the natural limits for all these hormones and dopamine levels in the human body and allow everyone to dope up to that level. It would level the playing field for those crazy outliers born with super high testosterone levels or whatever. He didnt really think it was a practical thing to do, but I think before long technology will get to a point where that is possible. quote

# 19 Apr, 2013 06:15

Wood8000

Personally I like what Tim Ferriss had to say about the use of PEDs. They should establish the natural limits for all these hormones and dopamine levels in the human body and allow everyone to dope up to that level. It would level the playing field for those crazy outliers born with super high testosterone levels or whatever. He didnt really think it was a practical thing to do, but I think before long technology will get to a point where that is possible.